The Adams family discuss their spooky new DIY occult horror Hellbender, being scarred by Phantasm, rocking out to Courtney Barnett, and why maggots make great actors.
The Adams family isn’t particularly fussed when it comes to the gear for their movie nights. This bubbly clan of filmmakers, whose sixth feature Hellbender has just landed on horror streamer Shudder, laughs at having one of the worst set-ups in the world. Their wi-fi connection is ropey, making streaming difficult, and they will often squeeze onto a queen-sized bed with a laptop, perched on top of a laundry basket, for a night of cozy home-cinema viewing. “We’re just like sardines in a can, but we love it,” mother Toby Poser says. “Popcorn in the creases of our sheets. It’s kind of beautiful.”
The same endearing DIY spirit can be seen in all the films the Adamses have made to date. Producing under their Wonder Wheel banner, Toby, John, and their daughters Lulu and Zelda are symbiotic, multi-hyphenate collaborators, quickly establishing themselves in the genre world as independent wonders—acting, writing, directing and shooting a string of low-budget pictures from their Catskill Mountains home in upstate New York.
It’s very easy to make maggots. They’re great actors. You just leave some stinky meat out and suddenly you have a whole lot of actors around.
—John AdamsCatching the attention of genre festivals like Fantasia, Nightstream and Fantastic Fest last year, Hellbender further solidifies their “sheer love of craft”. It’s a modest package that wields a bewitching, big-hearted punch, sharpening the regional atmosphere, warped sense of humor and imagination, and patient, spacious storytelling of their previous horror, The Deeper You Dig.
Conjuring its own occult mythology of the ‘hellbender’—a mix between a witch, a demon and an apex predator—the tale centers around a mother’s (Toby) efforts to quell the burgeoning powers of her isolated, homeschooled daughter, Izzy (Zelda), who’s slowly discovering the true nature of her lineage.
Spiked with otherworldly, hallucinatory visuals, impromptu face-melting jam sessions and other gross-out moments, the film easily sits alongside the recent folk-horror boom, but its specific brand of “woody witchy lo-fi garage post-gothy post-punk band fuckery” (ElectricxWizard) is perhaps less A24, and more in the 1990–2000s coming-of-age teenage-girl horror wheelhouse of The Craft, Ginger Snaps and May.
We jumped on a Zoom with the entire family for a chat about sneaking into the cinema, mothers and daughters, and movies, movies, movies.
One of the earliest Letterboxd reviews of Hellbender described it as a “mix between Josie and the Pussycats and Blood on Satan’s Claw”, which I feel is a pretty apt and inspired comparison. What movies were you watching during the making of Hellbender?
Toby Poser: One that comes to mind is Invasion of the Body Snatchers, the one with Donald Sutherland. John and I hadn’t seen it since we were much younger and we thought of it just for the sheer vision of something strange infiltrating your life, but that not necessarily being a bad thing. In the context of Hellbender we wanted to explore, “who are we going to side with?” We understand the mother’s trying to protect her daughter, but the daughter wants to come into her own power and agency.
John Adams: Yeah, absolutely. The girls always bring Raw in, too. They love Raw. So we have to watch Raw all the time. It’s just so good, and so honest. We strive to be honest like they’re honest. Really feels like you’re watching these two sisters, and all their friends. Everything just feels really real.
Have you ever snuck into a movie when you were younger? Were there any experiences that were like, “I shouldn’t be watching this”?
John: I snuck out of Phantasm because I was scared out of my damn mind. I was twelve years old and my soccer coach took me to it. I didn’t want my friends on my team to see me sneak out, but I was freaking terrified. I had to sneak out and then sneak back in so no one noticed that I just couldn’t handle it. So I did the reverse-sneaking.
Toby: I had two of them. The first was Alien and it blew my mind. And like you, I walked right back out. In fact, I was probably seeing something like The Sound of Music. I might be getting my years wrong. And I was like, on my way back from the bathroom, and I thought, ‘Let’s just see what’s in here.’ I was like, ‘Oh my God, why did I do that?’
Another one like that was Jaws, which my parents wouldn’t let me see. I understood why. It was the moment where there’s the dock and the guy barely makes it. He’s on the pier and the sharks are coming. That scared the shit out of me.
Lulu Adams: Twice I’ve snuck into films. One was actually sneaking from movie to movie. I went from a Nicolas Cage film into one of the Saw movies that our friend’s mother was watching when we were maybe eight or nine. I walked in and walked out. But when we were making our first movie, traveling cross country and living in an RV, I thought it would be really great to watch Saw [2].
I thought to avoid making it scary I’d make it funny, so I watched it in Russian. Instead, I had no idea what was coming. No clue of, “Oh, I’ll be the one to do this, I’ll jump into the pool of needles.” Nothing about what was coming, none of the arguments made any sense to me. So everything shocked me, and because we were on the road trip ing all these white speed-limit signs, I thought it was Saw watching me in the distance for about a month straight.
Zelda Adams: As much as I like breaking the rules in horror, I don’t really like breaking them in real life. So I haven’t really snuck into any movies. But Toby has definitely shown me some horror movies when I was a lot younger that I probably shouldn’t have seen. I think I started watching horror movies before I watched any of the G-rated movies.
As parents, how do you go about monitoring what the kids should watch or not watch?
John: I do the same parenting rules that my mom did. She brought me to A Clockwork Orange when I was a kid. She brought me to The Warriors, which was just about to be banned in New York. Because it was going to be banned my mom was like, “Well, if they’re going to ban a movie then we’re all going to go as a family and we’re going to watch it and we’re going to see why we’re banning it.” We went and we watched it and it was freaking awesome.
We love our kids to watch whatever they think they can handle, and it’s all art. So I don’t think there’s ever been any rules. What do you think, Lu? Have we ever laid down any rules?
Lulu: No. I mean, only a few times you guys didn’t let me watch The Sopranos when you would watch it.
John: Were you, like, three?
Lulu: I was probably four or five years old. I was super young. But otherwise you always included me. I used to always ask to see Chucky and I you went to take me for maybe my sixth, seventh birthday. It was just like a conversation. It was like, “Okay, are you ready, though, to be scared? Are you ready for this?” It’s like, if you’re going to hang out with the adults, you got to be ready to argue, you got to be ready to listen to stories being told and going back and forth.
Music is an important component in the film—the scenes with Mother and Izzy rocking out together are among the most fun and intimate. What were you listening to in order to get amped, and do you have any favorite needle-drops?
Zelda: While we were making Hellbender, we were pumping Courtney Barnett the entire time. A lot of this movie is shot in the Catskills, but it’s also shot a lot in the Pacific Northwest. That was when I discovered Courtney Barnett. Whenever we would go drive down to pick up or go meet Lulu to film, it was like a two-hour drive. We would just listen to Courtney Barnett the entire time. It really put us in the mood to film. Whenever I actually watch the movie I think of that band. What do you think, John?
John: Super clever. Their lyrics are wonderful. Yeah, Courtney Barnett’s just super inspiring. Right now I’m most inspired by a band called Pigs, Pigs, Pigs, Pigs, Pigs, Pigs, Pigs. They are a wonderful band and they’re super heavy and they are absolutely informing the imagery of the movie that we’re working on now, which is called When the Devil Roams.
Toby: I love Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds. I love Tom Waits. If you think of a movie like Repo Man—I like a lot of Black Flag and Suicidal Tendencies. I’m very broad with my musical taste. I like Queens of the Stone Age a lot.
John: It’s funny, lately we’ve been cranking up the disco. Then we watched the Bee Gees documentary, which was really terrific. So disco’s been really pounding out through the stereo lately.
The foundation of Hellbender’s narrative is the mother-daughter relationship. Most relationships of this nature in horror tend to get quite hysterical and destructive, but in Hellbender, there’s more of a nurturing quality in the way Mother is trying to control Izzy’s powers. Do you have any favorite mothers and daughters in films?
Zelda: Sure. Yeah, one of the first movies I’ve ever seen is Carrie. That’s a really interesting mother and daughter relationship where the mom is pretty aggressive about it, but she doesn’t really want Carrie to grow up and become a woman.
That kind of translates into Hellbender as well, but in a little bit of a different form. The mom is scared of Izzy growing up and going out into the world, first of all because she loves her, but also because she cares about people and she doesn’t want Izzy to go on a rampage. What do you think, Toby?
Toby: Yeah, I love some really contentious mother-daughter relationships where you know they love each other, but they’re both kind of really fucked up. Something like in The Florida Project.
I love the mother, Marcia Gay Harden, in Whip It. Her relationship with her daughter almost seems kind of like us.
Obviously, The Exorcist is a really interesting mother-daughter relationship, the fierceness of a mother to protect or regain her daughter. Relic is really cool because you have the three generations.
John: Hereditary has a great mother-daughter relationship too. We only know the mother that’s dead, and I’m not even talking about the little girl who gets her head knocked off. I’m talking about the mother and the grandmother. That’s a really interesting relationship right there that’s filled with hidden magic.
Toby: Lady Bird, I love that relationship.
I was actually thinking about Lady Bird. It did come to mind when I was watching Hellbender.
Zelda: Such a great movie. Because one of my favorite lines in film history is when the mom says that she loves her, but doesn’t necessarily like her, you know what I mean? I was like, “Oh my god, that’s so powerful. Wow.”
We’ve talked about Relic and Raw, are there any other recent women horror filmmakers that you’re fond of?
Toby: I’m a huge Babadook fan. I can’t wait to see what [Jennifer Kent] does next. Julia Ducournau, like you said. Titane and Raw are just… she is the boldest, coolest. Her visions are insane. Zelda and Lulu, I think you really like Veronika Franz, who did Goodnight Mommy and The Lodge.
John: Emily Bennett just made a movie called Alone with You and she’s a young filmmaker who’s on a tear right now.
Toby: Anna Biller’s really cool. I love the tone of The Love Witch. I really ire her because she wears every hat. Like gosh, she kind of does every single thing.
Let’s do a round of non-horror films now. Four favorites from each of you.
John: I’m going to go with The Bad News Bears, The Wrestler. I love Star Wars. I’m just going to say it. The director who made the movie about the guy who undoes the bombs. I’m blanking because I’m under pressure to answer something. But what was it?
Toby: You’re thinking of The Hurt Locker.
John: Yes! The Hurt Locker. Those are my four.
Toby: I’ll go next. You stole The Bad News Bears from me so I’ll take that out and say, I love Portrait of a Lady on Fire. [The] Iron Giant—
Zelda: No! You stole mine! [Laughs.]
Toby: There’s this F. W. Murnau film from 1927 that I’m a huge fan of: Sunrise: A Song of Two Humans. My last one, I might have to say Rocky.
Lulu: I would probably go with a bit of a range. I really enjoy The Lobster, just the quirkiness of that story. Toby loves all of his films as well. Last Night in Soho I really liked. It stuck with me and had some fun twists. I’m forgetting my list in my head.
Zelda: That’s why I need to pull up my Letterboxd list… The Witch. Jojo Rabbit. The Iron Giant. I was going to say The Lobster, but I want to think of something else.
John: How can you not say that comedy that you watch every single day?
Zelda: Alright, I’ll be honest. Step Brothers. [Laughs.]
John: Come on! Every time I come home you’re watching Step Brothers.
There’s a scene in the film where Zelda and Lulu are in town and there are Christmas lights in the background, and there’s an element of social distancing that’s folded into the story too. Would you consider Hellbender a Christmas or pandemic movie">Zelda: It’s more of a pandemic movie. Even though we didn’t seek out to make a Covid movie, it is. It does deal with themes of isolation. Izzy’s kept away from the world. Even in the filmmaking process, Lulu and I had to social distance because we were in different pods. So in that scene in front of the Christmas lights we were like seven feet apart and when we did get close I was like [pinching her nose], “Hold my breath, hold my breath.”
Toby: Can I be irreverent and call it an anti-Christmas movie?
John: Oh, I like that. I would love to make a movie around anti-Christmas, too. But no, it’s definitely a pandemic movie. But you know what? We’re making an anti-Christmas movie.
I would be happy to pull out Hellbender on Christmas.
John: That’s great. That’s so cool and it’s interesting. You’re the first person who’s mentioned the Christmas lights. They were important because I thought the whole imagery of Christmas brings a lot of weight to it. I’m really glad you brought that up.
And one of the wildest moments in the movie is when you’re both just vomiting on each other in the snow. It’s like a crazy variation of snow angels.
Toby: Originally we wanted them doing snow angels and they were going to burn all the snow in there, but it just didn’t look good.
John: Yeah, it’s funny, we shot that with a drone and we couldn’t see the snow angels because the snow’s so white and the contrast… so we just went with blood vomit.
One last thing, did anyone here eat maggots or worms as prep for the film, and what was it like?
John: It was a letdown. Lulu as a kid always put worms in her mouth. That was her big trick. It was always like, “Look!” And I was just like, “Look at this kid with those worms in her mouth.” So whether Lulu re it or not, everybody in this valley re it.
Lulu: I it was a way to get the adults to notice me as kids. I was like, “I know what will get them talking to me!”
Toby: In our last film before Hellbender, The Deeper You Dig, John’s character also pukes maggots. They were real maggots. We just left some cat food out and then within a few weeks there’d be maggots.
John: It’s very easy to make maggots. They’re great actors. You just leave some stinky meat out and suddenly you have a whole lot of actors around.
And Lulu’s like the worm expert, the on-set worm trainer.
John: Exactly. A worm wrangler. That’s what we’re going to call her. That’s going to be in the credits of our next film. “Lulu: Worm Wrangler.”
‘Hellbender’ is streaming on Shudder from February 24.
